Date is 2015-03-20, times are UTC+10.

--- Day changed Fri Mar 20 2015
06:58 < whot> good morning gentlemen
06:58 < egbert> good evening whot!
06:59 < stukreit> hihi
07:00 < agd5f> hi
07:01 < keithp> hi
07:02 -!- marcoz [] has joined #xf-bod
07:03 < marcoz> hi all
07:03 <+alanc> good afternoon
07:04 < whot> mupuf: ping
07:04 < marcoz> i will likely have to leave early.
07:04 < mupuf> pong
07:04 < whot> whoah, full house. not bad
07:04 < mupuf> :)
07:04 < egbert> i would appreciate a quick meeting as well.
07:04 < whot> alright, let's get started. I only have Election on the agenda. egbert?
07:05 < egbert> i'm ready to start the election. what is missing is the agreed upon final version of the by-laws.
07:05 < whot> mupuf: how are we looking with the bylaws?
07:06 < mupuf> whot: I already sent everything
07:07 < mupuf> sorry, was on the phone
07:07 < whot> mupuf: is anything missing then?
07:07 < mupuf> I don't think so
07:07 < mupuf> I'm sorry I did not do it last week but I was in vacation in lapland/sweden
07:07 < egbert> i did not hear anything on the board list regarding the revised version.
07:07 < mupuf> so it is not the best place
07:08 < mupuf> egbert: really?
07:08 < egbert> i just saw it being sent.
07:08 < mupuf> I CCed you
07:08 < egbert> no comments, no reviews, no approval or disapproval
07:08 < mupuf> oh, right
07:08 < mupuf> just sent it
07:09 < mupuf> so, what's the plan then?
07:09 < mupuf> I sent the diff
07:10 < egbert> the board should review, vote, once there is an agreement, you should publish a pdf version.
07:10 < whot> ok, anyone free after the meeting to go through it and double-check?
07:10 < egbert> you can do this on the election page.
07:11 < mupuf> the only thing I will need for the final pdf is the date when we release it
07:11 < egbert> since i'm currently sick and in bed with bronchitis it would be nice if you gave me a pointer independently.
07:11 < mupuf> and I would say it should be no later than next monday
07:11 < whot> alright, _everybody_ please go through this today or tomorrow so we have all the board acks by Saturday. the diff is small enough to the last version that we all saw and acked anyway
07:11 < mupuf> egbert: oh, good luck with this
07:11 < agd5f> there is a "FIXME/TODO: Fix the date" at the end
07:11 < whot> which means that we can publish it Sat and get the election started then
07:12 < mupuf> agd5f: I know, I need the date for the final version
07:12 < agd5f> ah, ok
07:13 < egbert> in principle they should have been posted to the members some time before the election in case of comments or questions. but it is too late for this now.
07:13 < mupuf> the problem I see is what SPI said, we have this weird mix of having the legal requirement for the non profit
07:13 < mupuf> while we are also dropping it
07:13 < mupuf> egbert: yeah... we really suck at this. Technically, everything was ready in november 2013
07:14 < mupuf> but we apparently had to wait until the last moment to review it more :s
07:15 < egbert> if we publish it on saturday we can start the election sunday->monday utc
07:15 < egbert> two weeks behind schedule
07:16 < egbert> i just need to add the link to the new by-laws and the date/time of the start.
07:16 < egbert> ... and end
07:17 < mupuf> we need to ask SPI if we can get a few more days to answer
07:17 < agd5f> I think it's fine to have a board and officers.  my neighorhood association has bylaws and a board and it's an unincorporated entity
07:17 < mupuf> very well
07:17 <+alanc> yes, many clubs are like this too
07:18 < egbert> i don't want to do away with these things either.
07:18 < whot> agree
07:18 < mupuf> agreed
07:18 < egbert> the by-laws are needed if you want elect officers.
07:18 <+alanc> you get into the legal entity when you want something to own property
07:18 < egbert> the officers are needed to decide over the things we usually decide. who else should do this?
07:19 <+alanc> which is why no one has proposed getting rid of the officers or the bylaws, just the corporation
07:20 < stukreit> We, like any other SPI org, own money. How are other orgs organized in SPI?
07:20 < egbert> exactly
07:20 < egbert> stukreit: good question!
07:20 <+alanc> SPI is the legal owner of the money, and they allow each project to dictate how it is used
07:20 < egbert> sure, but who decides how?
07:20 < stukreit> And when we raise money or get GSOC payments, they go to SPI in care of?
07:21 <+alanc> THE BOARD
07:21 <+alanc> we are not changing the board
07:21 < keithp> the spi bylaws restrict how SPI can use the monies, and each organization has a representative which forwards spending requests to the SPI treasurer. In our case, that would be an agent actiing for the board
07:21 < egbert> i was referring to the other orgs under spi.
07:21 < keithp> egbert: has me as the sole person in charge of the funds under management
07:22 < keithp> debian has the DPL (iirc)
07:22 < stukreit> Perhaps we can find in writing how SPI handles money going in/out of subsidiaries
07:22 < agd5f> doesn't debian have a board?
07:22 < keithp> agd5f: no
07:22 <+alanc> each org has their own governance - we're not required to adopt the model any of the others use
07:22 < egbert> right
07:22 < keithp> right, we have an existing board, so the board is the agent in charge of the funds; we just need a single representative that forwards those requests to the SPI treasurer
07:23 < stukreit> So for example, would GSOC take a PO and invoice from "SPI in-care-of Xorg"?
07:23 < keithp> yes
07:23 < stukreit> and use SPI's tax id for the transaction?
07:23 <+alanc> from what I recall, in past years the SPI treasurer submits one PO & invoice on behalf of all SPI orgs
07:23 < keithp> yes
07:23 < whot> we did discuss this in the past - we said the xorg treasurere would be that gatekeeper between the spi treasurer and  us
07:24 < agd5f> whot, yes
07:24 <+alanc> saves paperwork for Google, SPI, and every org, so everyone is happy
07:24 < whot> i.e. the roles stay the same, except that the xorg T can't write a cheque directly but fwds to the SPI T
07:24 < stukreit> As long as I don't have to talk to a bank officer ever again (well, except for personal bzness)
07:24 < keithp> stukreit: you won't
07:25 < stukreit> k: ;-)
07:25 < keithp> I certainly haven't in my role as representative
07:25 <+alanc> just one last time to close the account after you send all the money to SPI
07:25 < keithp> and fd.o spends about the same amount as does each year
07:26 < whot> ok, are we clear on things now?
07:26 < egbert> yes.
07:26 < egbert> so, is this ok to start the election on monday 00:00 UTC then?
07:27 < egbert> or do you want to do it on sunday already?
07:27 < whot> works for me. how long is the election period and will we make the 9th april deadline?
07:27 < egbert> afair 2 weeks.
07:27 < egbert> lemme check
07:27 < keithp> we've got three weeks before the deadline
07:27 < mupuf> so it is tight
07:27 < mupuf> but it still fits
07:28 < egbert> yeah, 2 weeks.
07:28 < egbert> it would have been over at the time we are actually starting it.
07:28 < whot> ok. egbert: sun works as well, it doesn't matter much IMO though having it end on a mon 00:00 would be better
07:29 < whot> so again, job for everyone is to read through the by-laws, send an ACK to the board list in reply and once we have the needed acks mupuf and egbert can post it and get the election rolling. do this before Sun
07:30 < egbert> we start on mon 00:00 utc and end on sun 23:59 (both utc)
07:30 < mupuf> I will be in Russia starting from 4pm tomorrow
07:31 < mupuf> so, I can update the date already
07:31 < mupuf> but the sooner you review it, the less painful it will be for everyone
07:31 < whot> mupuf: then fix up the pdf with a date of Saturday and give it to egbert. egbert can upload it to the wiki once it's formally through
07:31 < mupuf> ack
07:31 < mupuf> let me remind you that everyone has access to the git repo though
07:32 < whot> yeah, so if we need to change it later we can do so, but for now until russia you're the owner of the bylaw changes :)
07:32 < mupuf> woops, I have been pushing to the wrong branch
07:32 < mupuf> sure
07:32 < mupuf> I will update my setup
07:33 < egbert> mupuf: i would like the pdf version. i've already spent enough time to fix the election system.
07:33 < egbert> actually i don't want to deal with uploading either.
07:33 < mupuf> understandable
07:33 < egbert> there are others here (also on the election team) who could do something for a change.
07:34 < mupuf> I don't have the rights to edit anything on the election system IIRC
07:34 < agd5f> where does it need to be uploaded?  I can try and take care of that
07:34 < egbert> mupuf: i can add the url to the bylaws.
07:34 < egbert> this is not the point.
07:36 < mupuf> I should check if I can cgit to work for the canonical repo
07:37 <+alanc> I never could figure out why cgit wasn't showing it
07:37 < mupuf> yep
07:37 < mupuf> but we need to make it work
07:37 < egbert> mupuf: don't expect people to run tex and build them themselves.
07:38 < mupuf> egbert: nope, but people want to see the changelog
07:38 < mupuf> and see the patches
07:38 < whot> once the pdf is done you should check that in anyway
07:38 < egbert> i just checked: it seems we only have the by-law review page from 2006.
07:38 < egbert> this is where we point to from the elections overview page.
07:39 < mupuf>
07:39 < egbert> agd5f: the old bylaws have been uploaded to the wiki.
07:40 < egbert> i don't know how to do this with this wiki. should be documented somewhere.
07:40 < mupuf> egbert: uploading stuff? I can do that
07:40 < mupuf> it is weird but I have done it a lot
07:40 < egbert> mupuf: ok
07:40 < egbert> so it is even easier.
07:41 < egbert> once you have uploaded it send email to the members list and cc the board list.
07:41 <+alanc> there's buttons for attachments on the bottom of the wiki edit page
07:41 <+alanc> or you can check them into git and push them
07:41 < egbert> the members should be notified as soon as the documents are available and ready for consumption.
07:41 < mupuf> egbert: ok
07:41 < whot> ok, so are we sorted now for who does what? bylaws getting uploaded, election to start?
07:42 < mupuf> alanc: they are already into git
07:42 < whot> mupuf: the wiki has a git backend
07:42 < mupuf> but without cgit, you cannot serve them
07:42 <+alanc> I meant the wiki git repo
07:42 < mupuf> ah, that's what you meant
07:43 <+alanc> git+ssh://
07:46 < egbert> ok, what
07:46 < egbert> 's left?
07:47 < mupuf> which page should I upload it onto? ?
07:47 < whot> ok, recap: mupuf to upload the pdf and send out the announce to the members/board list. egbert to start election on Sun/Mon
07:47 < whot> mupuf: yes
07:47 < mupuf> whot: nope, first, the rest of the board need to ack my changes
07:48 < whot> well, yes, I thought that was the only clear point in that sequence :)
07:50 < mupuf> hehe
07:50 < whot> ok, I guess the sequence is clear now. again, everybody pls ack the bylaws asap before Sat
07:50 < whot> and that should be it, I hope. any other items for today?
07:50 < mupuf> whot: I would say in the next 24h
07:50 < mupuf> 12h would be better
07:50 < whot> optimist...
07:50 < egbert> right
07:50 < mupuf> seriously, it does not take more than 10 minutes
07:50 < mupuf> and we are waaaaayyyy past late
07:51 < agd5f> I read them over today and they look fine to me.  You can add my ack.
07:51 < whot> agd5f: board list pls, for the archives
07:51 < agd5f> will do
07:51 < egbert> have we talked about the opw status lately?
07:51 < whot> no, I've been meaning to send a summary out and didn't get to it yet
07:52 < whot> should be on the board list within the next couple of days
07:52 < egbert> ok, thanks whot!
07:53 < agd5f> I gotta run an pick up my daughter
07:53 < whot> ok, I think that's it for today anyway
07:53 < whot> thanks for attending, talk to you in two weeks. again pls ack the bylaw changes